Commentaries:20210109-1

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'Debate over whether or not there was (election) fraud should occur': Sen. Paul | ABC News

[pre]


Terrence Zellers Terrence Zellers 35 minutes ago There are NOT two sides to everything.


in regard to numbers, 2+2=4. Politicians saying otherwise will not make it otherwise. There's "no room for debate" that (normal in normal circumstance) ice is frozen water. And there are not "twos sides" (despite lunatics on the intertubies) to the fact that the earth is a (within 1%) sphere.

This "two sides" crap is pure post-modernist dialectic materialism. An attempt to MAKE reality to conform to politically desirable truth. In point of fact THE epistemic foundation of Leninist Communism ... a fact which should get FAR more emphasis than it does, just to wake up the somnolent real conservatives as to who is running the contemporary Republican party. Trump's Covid response is Lysenkoism warmed over. And works about as well.

I remain dumbfounded that "modern" Republicans whine about socialism while acting out (Leninist for those who know the difference) Communist philosophy.


For those of us who's epistemology is one of looking at the real world and what works in it..... the people voted. Period. In the states where election laws were changed in response to the pandemic, the time to challenge was before the election. The election is OVER. The citizenry ACCEPTED the changes as they were at the time of the election. They voted ... in historically large turnout. There's nothing left to discuss about the rules regarding who was allowed to vote or how the states accepted and counted votes. The people of those states, by voting, accepted those changes. Texas does not have standing to challenge MY vote in Pennsylvania. Those who did have standing DID challenge ... and the Supreme Court said the rules were valid. IT"S DONE.


Nowhere have I seen credible evidence that there was substantial evidence that there was fraud in the voting itself, nor the gathering or counting of those votes. Sure there were individual incidents of mistake and malfeasance ... somebody with early dementia, voting in the morning, forgetting about it and then going back to vote in the evening, or someone voting by mail then thinking she could change her vote (in a state where it's not allowed, at least that way) by voting in person. Perhaps a son somewhere honouring his father who cared deeply about it, by voting his name (thinking it a traffic ticket level offence rather than the more serious crime it is). Things like this - and some minor malfeasance - as actual intentional fraud at a small scale for some local races - ALWAYS happens. But the question is did it happen enough to substantially change the presidential race?


And the best information that can be had, with more than sixty court attempts ... none succeeding, and only one having the minor "victory" of a small change in how an observer could look at counting .. gives what even Trump's own Justice department has acknowledged .. that there was NO fraud or malfeasance at any scale that could affect the outcome of the electoral college.


Rand Paul knows all this. All national level elected politicians know or should know this - particularly if the choose to speak of such matters on public media. They're LYING when refusing to acknowledge that the election is over and that Biden won.


This lying, this perpetuation of "two sides" and "whataboutism" IS the divisiveness that is tearing this nation apart. It itself is a lie. There are many things for which there are NOT "two sides".

I hear fetid fertilizer abut the impeachment where republicans say it shouldn't happen to unify the country. If they want to unify they can tell simple truths. Biden honestly won the election. [/pre]



CBS: Some Republicans argue Trump's pre-riot comments are protected speech


Terrence Zellers
20 hours ago

It's not "protected speech".    Whether it is in a court of law or not is an argument for another day,  but as an officer/executive he has responsibility above and beyond his personal intersest.     Impeachment and removal (or disqualification) from position is NOT punishment in the law.   It is merely asserting the standards of action required of the position.     Impeachment is a declaration that he failed to meet the standards required of the office (and not a "legal" requirement.

Now going farther and wholly apart from questions of impeachment,  his failure to activate the National Guard despite frantic requests from various officials to do so is clear post hoc evidence of "mens rea".

7

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Douglas Goss
19 hours ago

I'm in total agreement with your assessment of the situation, let's work together all the people of the United States. Thank you!

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Papa Wheelie
17 hours ago (edited)

I keep looking for video evidence of Trump inciting violence at the Capitol Building, but all I can find is this:
https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1348493425566478336     Can anyone help?

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Terrence Zellers
17 hours ago

@Papa Wheelie Yes.  Why didn't he immediately send the NG when requested?   Likewise varioius branches of DoJ and Interior  were repeatedly asking for permission to deploy and assist police at the Capitol.    We know for certain that for several hours he refused to respond to those requests.  

Given that ew know for certain that he was immediately and presently aware of the violence at the Capitol, and that the entirety of effort it would have taken to accede to such  would have been a distracted not of the head to a staffer, that's pretty clear evidence of what the lawyers call "mens rea".

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Papa Wheelie
13 hours ago

@Terrence Zellers  That's all speculation on your part.  Evidence is required.  No one seems to have any to offer.

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Terrence Zellers
12 hours ago

@Papa Wheelie I watched for hours with no NG action ... when I had expected the NG to be there almost immediately.     There are many and multiple reports from many sources  of direct requests for authorization to intevene in those hours and likewise many and multiple reports of Trump watching "with exciitement" on the television from his dining room.   All of this can be documented and attested to by affadavit ... and the phone callls by White House phone logs ... which are not subject to Trump's dubious claims of privilege when he leaves office.

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Papa Wheelie
5 hours ago
@Terrence Zellers  Please link to your many and multiple sources.  None of what you described was mentioned in the articles of impeachment.  Strange.

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Terrence Zellers
28 minutes ago

@Papa Wheelie Stupid.   Pull your head out of your bum and look at a variety of news sources.    Then there's this little thing called "google" if you have any questions about what's going on.      All the kids know about it.   Ask anyone with a clue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/01/06/reports-trump-resisted-sending-national-guard-to-quell-violent-mob-at-us-capitol/

https://www.klkntv.com/sources-pres-trump-refused-to-call-in-national-guard-during-riots/

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533403-sasse-says-trump-was-delighted-and-excited-by-reports-of-capitol-riot 




TYT:The Damage Report

Just posted on a CNN YT talking to those "proud" of yesterday's insurrection (hereafter referrred to as "the fruitcake rebellion")
...

        
  CNN needs to be beaten with a cluestick for normalizing the fruitcake rebellion.         You don't talk to and broadcast such opinions without loudly and strongly pointing them out with condemnation and ludicrous scorn.      


To be sure, these people don't know any better and believe they hold "sane" and reasonable views ... but such are believed sane and reasonable by those without the time or education to reflect more deeply on politics and history BECAUSE such opinions are presented as if "reasonable".    They're not.



TYT:The Damage Report


Terrence Zellers
35 minutes ago
Sorry, but Trumpies  do not understand determinable and definitive proof. 

They've never been educated to be able to think to determinate and definite conclusions themselves (those of us well educated in math have this ... there is no counter to Euclidean or algebraic proofs which can be demonstrated in multiople ways).....

And not knowing from their own experience that there are determinate and definitive realities which can be objectively proven, they don't ... can't! ... beliieve in larger realities.   The only reality they know is what they believe, and what others tell them is "truth".    If they choose information sources that agree with their beliefs, you geet the "echo chamber" effect, and "cults" around sets of beliefs which are impervious to contrary evidence.  

This is the base and core of holocaust denialism, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and Trumpies.     All this amplified and congealed by the opportunities of modern media to monetize and profit by isolating and protecting these valleys of anti-objective memetic attractors.

MSNBC


Impeach him.  Renders "self pardon" totally moot.

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Miss Understanding
1 day ago
He couldn't self pardon if he wanted to.
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Terrence Zellers
1 day ago
@Miss Understanding Does he know that?   Besides you don't get the reality of the grift.   Sure in a real court with a real judge a self pardon would take about enough time for the judge to blow his nose to dispose of.   But the point is that it will be his claim to "unjust" "persecution" to milk the grievance groupies some more and throw dust and doubt that much longer.

Given the "except in cases of impeachment ..." phrase, in the declaration of powers regarding pardons, that all goes away if impeached for his actions (I'd make the articles quite broad).